Hi everyone,

Apologies for posting this in English. My German isn't good enough to write what I want to write. I got the advice to post here from Reddit.

I'm contemplating moving to Germany, and I would really appreciate your take on my situation to help me with the decision making process.

The facts

• 27 year old
• Would be moving to Germany with my girlfriend
• Liberal arts degree (Political Science) from an Ivy League (I know it won't help me, just trying to give as much info)
• German level currently at A2 (Bilingual in English/Arabic, Turkish B1/B2 although I haven't taken any official exams for it)
• 2 years experience in commercial banking (credit analysis)
• Two startups founded and up and running (i.e. I'm not worried about money)
• Passed the three levels of CFA, 2 levels of CMA, 2 levels of FRM, and 2 levels of the CAIA, also passed the American-centric Series 65 and SIE exam. I did all these while I was working on my startups so while I have passed all the exams, I don't have the experience to get any charter yet.
• Excel/VBA, Python, Tableau

The desired goal/planned process

• Move to Germany
• Enroll in intensive German classes for 2 years
• Obtain a job in the financial sector (I'm moving to Frankfurt if that matters, but my gf is open to moving to Berlin if it would be better for me professionally), ideally in equity research or asset management

The questions:

1. What level of German would I need to get to before I could start applying for jobs in the field? B2? C1? C2?

2. I'm estimating it would take me 2 years of intensive studying to get to B2/C1. By then I'll be about 30 years old. Would the combo of old age/lack of experience be a serious obstacle in getting an entry-level job in the field assuming I have the language by then?

3. Would I be able to get part-time or even full-time internships in the field in the first two years while I'm learning the language? (even unpaid is fine by me during that stage)

4. Someone told me that it's impossible to get a job in the field unless I have an academic degree in business or finance. Is that true? Would I have to do a second bachelor's just to enter the field?

5. Would I be taxed in Germany on my income from my 2 startups? (no operations in Germany, but I would be doing the bulk of my work on them while I'm residing in Germany). These are registered and tax-paying LLCs, not freelance/independent contractor work.

6. Are there any standard certifications/licensing exams to pass if I want to work in the field? Any info on these would be much appreciated because I know that might be a tough question to answer.

7. Any advice that pops in your head that you can give me

Thank you all for all your help in advance! And apologies again for posting in English or if I'm unknowingly breaking any forum rules.

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Stay in the USA

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Welcome to Germany.

1. I'd say proper German is not really a requirement for applying in this field. Everyone who is working in this sector is at least capable of speaking English at a C1 level. Processes, programs and documentations are mostly in English as well. A bit of understanding might be good though - especially when it comes to meetings and stuff.

You should see it more from a personal side. The better your German is, the better you'll get along with your colleagues. Obviously not everyone likes the fact that they have to switch to English when speaking in groups just because of you.

2. I don't think so. If I would be in your shoes I'd go for a finance masters degree. University is free in Germany and master's degrees are mostly in English. Beside that you could use this 2 years for studying proper German.

3. I am not really sure about that since I am not in this field. Longer unpaid internships are not legal in Germany, so you're getting at least 1 (if not 2)k a month.

4. That is probably true, yes. As I mentioned before, doing a master's degree could be very helpful for you.

5. Do you get a salary out of your start ups? If yes, this would be taxed in Germany since you are living here now. Money that stays inside the company will not be taxed here.

6. Three levels of CFA are enough I'd say. But once again, I am not that familiar with this field.

7. Frankfurt is the capital of banks and finance stuff in Germany. Moving to Berlin doesn't make sense at all. If you're more into mellow life, you should consider working for the DAX companies - mostly in the south (Stuttgart, Munich). Here you have a great salary (starting at 70k - going up to 150k without any leadership function) combined with a 35h/week contract and 30 days of vacation a year. Might be the best deal when it comes to W-L balance.

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"Passed the three levels of CFA, 2 levels of CMA, 2 levels of FRM, and 2 levels of the CAIA, also passed the American-centric Series 65 and SIE exam. "

"Excel/VBA, Python, Tableau"

"2 years experience in commercial banking (credit analysis)"

And Ivy Degree, your startups and so on... if thats true, why do you want to move to germany? Stay in the US...

Yes, Frankfurts the place to be for most financial jobs, some companys also have offices in munich and hamburg. Also germany much smaller than the US and you are able to travel from Berlin to Frankfurt in just a few hours.

Advice, if you really want to work in AM in germany: Write an full CV with every "useful" thing in it, add copies of the official documents and send them to the big AM companys.
But call them before sending the stuff, every serious office consists of fluent english speaking germans. Explain them your situation, "namedrop" your Ivy school, your CFA and stuff and ask them if you can send them your CV via mail.

Im pretty sure, that you should score a job without fluent german. Much business in the german finance industry is done in english, so it should be possible for you to get in - if your willing to learn german.

Apply to the big one: GS, JP, MS, DWS, Allianz, BlackRock... just google the biggest ones in germany and call them.

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Let make a long story short:

In Germany we have MANY, MANY students with an economic degree. The financial industry is not going really well and many banks are laying people off and in finance industry in general. More because of that fact, I would rate the chances to be really low to find a proper job which pays well. Furthermore, the work culture in Germany is much different to other countries - it's really difficult to get in, but once in, the job is not really demanding.

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I know international students have to have at least level B2 to get accepted at the university so I guess you need B2/C1 to find a job.

My friend studies here but she speaks very little German. She got an internship in Deutsche Börse, Frankfurt Main, so there should be some possibilities to get internships without speaking German BUT you can only get an internship you're currently studying or if you've finished your bachelor's degree and are planning to apply for masters.

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Rothman schrieb am 18.08.2019:

1. What level of German would I need to get to before I could start applying for jobs in the field? B2? C1? C2?

This depends on the company and the specific job. While studying I did an internship at an international insurance company where the colleague I mainly worked for was from Canada an could speek almost no German. It was no problem, since in Germany every higher-educated person can speak English on a sufficient level.
But of course it's more comfortable to higher German speakers and very important if you should have direct contact to German speaking clients.
So: It depends.

2. I'm estimating it would take me 2 years of intensive studying to get to B2/C1. By then I'll be about 30 years old. Would the combo of old age/lack of experience be a serious obstacle in getting an entry-level job in the field assuming I have the language by then?

I don't think so. But an internship would help significantly.

3. Would I be able to get part-time or even full-time internships in the field in the first two years while I'm learning the language? (even unpaid is fine by me during that stage)

I don't think that there are unpaid internships in finance industry. ;) If your internship lasts longer than three months they are legally required to pay you a minimum salary of about 9€/h (before taxes).

By the way: For a career in finance Frankfurt sounds perfect.

4. Someone told me that it's impossible to get a job in the field unless I have an academic degree in business or finance. Is that true? Would I have to do a second bachelor's just to enter the field?

I would not say impossible but more difficult. STEM fields are also okay (especially science) but liberal arts sounds more difficult. On the other side, you haven an CFA, so you proved that you have knowledge in this field.
Maybe you could think about making an online Bachelor degree at "Fernuni Hagen" parallel to your German lessons if you feel that the missing degree hurts you.

5. Would I be taxed in Germany on my income from my 2 startups? (no operations in Germany, but I would be doing the bulk of my work on them while I'm residing in Germany). These are registered and tax-paying LLCs, not freelance/independent contractor work.

I would suggest you to speak to a German Tax Consultant about this topic once. International tax law can be tricky. Probably you won't have to pay taxes for these in Germany but maybe you are legally required to declare your income the the German tax authorities because they could effect your income tax rate of your internship.

Better spend some € for a legally save answer than being prosecuted for tax fraud when your career starts.

6. Are there any standard certifications/licensing exams to pass if I want to work in the field? Any info on these would be much appreciated because I know that might be a tough question to answer.

No Germany-specific exams that I know of (as long as you don't include German Tax Consultants an German Auditor to 'the field'). Your CFA is great.

7. Any advice that pops in your head that you can give me

Speak German!
I just lost a very intelligent colleague at the big4 audit firm I work for. She was fired because my boss thought her German had not improved enough. Otherwise she was brilliant, but for our job language is to important.

You will soon notice that almost everywhere you go in Germany, as long as you are surrounded by well-educated people, they will switch to German for you. But to learn a language you should speak, hear, write and read teh language as much as you can.
So, ask them to talk to you in German, set your Netflix settings to "German with German subtitles" (e.g. watch the German show "Dark"), read a German book, listen to some German music.

You don't have to completely forget any other language - but the more German, the better and faster you will learn the language.

Thank you all for all your help in advance! And apologies again for posting in English or if I'm unknowingly breaking any forum rules.

No problem, as I told you. ;)

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Hi,
I am a frequent poster here in this forum, usually regarding topics revolving around Big 4 in general, KPMG specificially, Financial Services, strategy and management consulting and so on...

whilst i consider your CV very interesting, I am pretty certain that the Big4 are not yet capable of properly integrating someone with a CV like yours.

However, are you interested in working in the FinTech scene in Berlin? I have a lot of connections of former colleagues and friends, who run successful companies now. They are always searching for capable candidates...

Just contact me via the messaging system here or (preferably) via mail at kpmglagerung@googlemail.com and we can connect on LinkedIn. Lets see where we get starting from there...

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1. C2 for most jobs
2. 30 years is not considered too old in Germany for any position
3. Try FinTech StartUps in Berlin. At most of them English is the official language spoken
4. Since you have professional experience that should not be an issue anymore
5. Cant say for sure without more information. But generally you are taxed where you live
6. Your CFA is valued in Germany
7. Have you thought about consulting? Seems like you would have a shot

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Some of the finance industry in Germany operates in english

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